Questioning the Police State, Not Just the Tactics

Questioning the Police State, Not Just the Tactics

By:  Peter Chamberlin

The torture debate focuses on the wrong issues, serving only to obscure the bigger picture.  The real life issue is not that our elected government has used police state tactics on prisoners, but that our elected leaders believe that the United States has some sort of moral authority to define its own set of standards, freeing American spies and soldiers to operate outside of the laws that bind the rest of the human race.  The torture debate has merely exposed the terror that our government utilizes everyday, to have its way with the world.

The recent revelations contained in CIA releases is kid’s stuff in the real spy world, but it is revealing enough to give the public a whiff of the stench that rolls out of the agency’s secret prisons and nightmarish hell holes, where they show the world what American democracy really means—POWER, plain and simple.

The US has the power to create its own authority, under the auspices of some reputable institution, like the UN, or the World Bank.  The outrage comes not so much over revelation of the brutal tactics used to beat human beings into drooling submissives, but that young soldiers were assigned these tasks that should have been reserved for the medieval thinking spooks and their evil minions.

The issue is the core contradiction of American politics, between those on one side who believe that “manifest destiny” justifies every brutality that America has committed to claw its way to the top of the world, and those who believe that the United States must be held to the same standards of the rest of the human race.

Cheney is no more a monster than the rest of the elitist crowd he serves.  He is just more open about his evil intentions, insisting that the world accept them as the “right thing.”   In the Hegelian world of Cheney and co. the world is reversed, “bad” is the new good.  The “dark side” has been in charge for a long time.  Cheney and co. merely seek to persuade us to accept it, allowing the dark forces in charge to emerge from the shadows.  The government is growing weary of having to hide its real face.

Idealists see only the good, never the bad, about America.  Truly, they believe that our government can do no wrong in the defense of national security.  If we have to torture people to death to prevent terror attacks upon Americans then that fact transcends issues of morality.

Even if no one really believed that the torture saved lives, there is Cheney’s “one-percent” doctrine, which views a one in one-hundred possibility as a certainty.  By giving-in to this ridiculous assertion as the basis of our military possibility we accept that every nation fits this definition of threat.  This is a justification for any aggression, not for realistic self-defense.

Preserving the “American way of life” justifies any action, to the Cheneys of this world.  The inevitable results of that way of life can be seen in today’s headlines, where the elitist bankers drain-off trillions from the middle and lower classes, leaving a very small minority “sitting pretty” and the majority on an economic downhill slide.  We wage war upon the world to make the continuation of this massive inequity possible.

To support this unfair economic arrangement, the United States must have most of the world’s oil and other resources.  This is America’s motivation in planning and waging world war III.  Our goals are no less than those of the Third Reich.  The American leaders and their collaborators are in the midst of trying to slowly takeover the oil and gas resources of the world in order to deny the rest of the world the needed resources that would enable them to challenge the US economically.  Should they succeed in their intensive efforts then the survivors of the action would know that they were witnesses to the rise of the “Fourth Reich.”

Since World War II, America has operated as a second, secret manifestation of National Socialism, a “Fourth Reich.”  The absorption of Nazi scientists in “Operation Paperclip” and the secret implementation of their methods by the military and the CIA have altered our world irrevocably, empowering the world masters (who had always employed ruthless methods in their secret dealings) to boldly act on the world stage as Hitler had done, as long as their hand in those actions remained hidden.

The secret Nazification of American government was one giant step towards the world empire that the financier plotters had envisioned, making the use of those tactics acceptable is the next giant step.  Bringing the secret dictatorship into the open, empowering it with all available authority, is the final step, the step that Adolph Hitler was unable to master.  Cheney and his corrupt CIA merely sought to finish the work that the Fuhrer started.

By pushing the justification of the terroristic policies that were used, Cheney is trying to resurrect the panic-driven schemes that he and Wolfowitz have been pushing on the world since 1992 (Defense Planning Guidance).  All of the war conspirators, who have pushed the neocon war plan down the nation’s throat have been advocating the position that American “excellence” justifies our dominating the entire world as some evolutionary step, where mankind as a herd of sheeple learns to accept American superiority.

To Cheney and co., including every American who accepts their “logic,” it does not matter that American “superiority” is based on the heinous ethnic cleansing of an entire race of people.  Just as American school children are taught to accept our genocidal beginnings, the American people are being indoctrinated to passively accept the latest genocide in the greater Middle East and those that are still in the works.

To tell the “truth” about American actions in the world, as an American, means to hide from the truth, ducking behind shiny heroic images of America, deflecting truth with cries of “communist,” “un-American,” “anti-Semitic” and “traitor.”  The real good that we have done in the world has usually been done in the hope of improving America’s image and thereby winning some hard to obtain commercial or military concessions.  The truth is that America has been ruled by a small cabal of powerful men for most of our history.  These secret rulers  have always hid their actions behind a façade of “democracy” and “republicanism.”  The so-called “free market” economy is another of their deceptive terms that hides the “special interests” regulations that help them and hinder others in our tightly controlled system, based solely on cronyism and graft.

The truth about America is that the people are delusional, largely because our secret rulers are so successful at what they do, hiding every criminal action behind one or more layers of “deniability.”   The guilt of the big bosses is hidden behind the tabloid sacrifice of the underling agents.  The torturer is no less sadistic than the wealthy crime boss who has ordered his slow abuse or even dismemberment.  Cheney is out there trying to use the trusted old tools of his satanic craft to reignite the fear that drives the mobs to the next hanging or witch-burning.

The day will soon come when these workers of inequity reap what they sow, but our fate and that of our children and their children will be determined by what we are willing to accept on their behalf.  Will the vultures circling over the head of the dark master Cheney continue to feast on the bones of the small and the helpless, or will they finally feast on his fat flesh?

We may have successfully removed him from power, but we have not yet shattered the spell that he casts like some dark “Sith Lord,” with his hypnotic monotonic messages of ultimate fear and impending doom.  The CIA torture investigations that have stirred Cheney’s wrath are the correct path for uncovering just exactly what Bush and Cheney have secretly done to the world in the absence of American opposition.

Like the lame excuses of Bill Clinton, as he squirmed under Kenneth Starr’s grilling, Cheney’s defense hinges on a single word—“if.”  For Slick Willy, it was, “What is is?”

For Cheney, it is, what is “if”?  For most of us, “if” means that consequences will follow certain events, “if” no actions are taken to deflect that probability.  For Cheney, “if” translates into meaning that  adverse conditions will happen if  his counter-actions are not taken beforehand—meaning that he knows the specific future, somehow.

In Cheney’s world, “if” we don’t let Obama heed Cheney’s advice and bomb Afghanistan, western Pakistan, Iran, Somalia, Nigeria, Venezuela, etc. into oblivion, then terrorism will emerge from those countries to torment us.  In reality, if we do bomb or invade those countries, then we will be creating terrorist armies to hunt us as ruthlessly as we have hunted them.

If we don’t fully and openly investigate that bastion of fascism that resides in that odd-shaped building in Langley, Va.,

then, we will fully consumed by the monsters who dwell within, who think nothing of threatening a child, or even killing them, or abducting them and subjecting them to torture, electroshock and sexual abuse…

All in the name of freedom and national security, we dutifully march into the police state, in synchronized goose-step.


More Americans are having their power shut off as the weak economy makes it harder to pay bills.

More Americans are having their power shut off as the weak economy makes it harder to pay bills.

Emily Bazar
USA Today
Fri, 28 Aug 2009 22:32 UTC

“We see record numbers of households becoming disconnected or in danger of disconnection,” says Mark Bixby, energy director of Rockford, Ill. Five years ago, his office distributed federal funds annually to about 300 households that had their power cut off. Last year, it was 1,834 households, and the number is likely to go up this year, he says: “It’s families that can’t find work.”

ComEd, which supplies electricity to 3.8 million customers in northern Illinois, says it has disconnected more this year than last but declined to provide specifics. The utility saw a 14% increase in bills 60 days late in the first half of this year compared with the same period last year, spokeswoman Kim Johnson says.

Regulations differ by state, but utilities generally may not cut power off during extremely cold, and in some cases extremely hot, weather.

Utilities say they try to help customers avoid disconnection with payment plans, referrals to social service agencies and grants to pay bills.

This fiscal year, the federal Administration for Children and Families distributed a record $5.1 billion to states to help low-income households pay energy costs. The federal stimulus package includes $1.5 billion to prevent homelessness, in part by helping people pay utility bills.


– Piedmont Natural Gas, which has 1 million customers in North Carolina, South Carolina and Tennessee, disconnected 9,039 North Carolina customers from November 2008 through February 2009, up 68% from the same period a year earlier. “The economy’s having an impact,” spokesman David Trusty says.

– Public Service Electric and Gas, which has 2.3 million customers in New Jersey, has seen a 20% increase so far this year in customers at least two months behind, says billing director Victor Viscomi.

This year, 30,000 more customers received financial assistance. Unemployment and foreclosures are growing, Viscomi says, and “bankruptcies are up approximately 30% among customers.”

– At Arizona’s Home Energy Assistance Fund, requests for help with utility bills are up 40% from last year, program manager Katie Morales says.

Chris Cox, 30, of Tucson, called after he got a cutoff notice. The father of four says he’s two months behind and owes $400.

Cox, who works in ad sales, says his commissions have fallen by more than half in four months. “I have family and friends that would have normally been in a position to help, but they aren’t able to now,” he says. “I don’t know what I’m going to do.”

CIA’s black sites, illuminated

CIA’s black sites, illuminated

The facilities were never meant to be ‘ordinary prisons,’ recently released documents reveal in meticulous detail.

By Greg Miller

Reporting from Washington – Their transformations took place in a sensory cocoon: aboard a CIA aircraft, shackled in place, deprived of sight and sound by blindfolds, headsets and hoods.

They emerged into an existence that was hidden for most of the last eight years, but now is possible to glimpse through dozens of declassified files released by the Obama administration last week.

Scattered throughout, in the CIA’s clinical style, are descriptions of the prisoners’ surroundings, the extraordinary security measures with which they were handled, the often brutal search for answers they were thought to possess, and what passed for everyday life.

Some days seemed endless, illuminated around the clock by a pair of 17-watt fluorescent bulbs. White noise from the walkways filtered through the cell walls usually “in the range of 56-58” decibels, about as loud as people generally talk.

There were touches of CIA hospitality. Prisoners were given books, movies and checkerboards to pass the time. They could hit the gym for exercise, and let their hair grow as long as they liked.

But there were also long stretches designed to break prisoners’ will.

They were stripped, shaved and shoved against walls the moment they arrived. What came next was an escalating menu of interrogation options, culminating in a method used in the Inquisition — waterboarding — to make them think they would drown.

The purpose, of course, was to make them talk. The Bush administration said the United States was in danger of additional assaults after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. CIA interrogators were under orders to get a lot of information, fast. Whether the harsh interrogation methods were necessary to gather the intelligence is still a matter of dispute.

The only glimpse?

The secret overseas “black sites” where the CIA conducted the interrogations are empty now, if not already dismantled. They were never examined by a congressional committee, nor inspected by the international Red Cross.

“These papers may provide the only picture that history gets of what life was like in these facilities,” said Tom Malinowski, Washington director of Human Rights Watch.

The black sites not only imprisoned men but reduced them to a near helpless state. The aim, as outlined in one document, was to teach every detainee “to perceive and value his personal welfare, comfort and immediate needs more than the information he is protecting.”

The prisoners’ arrival — almost always in diapers — was engineered to achieve that end.

After being shaved, stripped and photographed nude, detainees were examined by CIA medical and psychological personnel. Then came a preliminary interrogation that would determine the prisoners’ fate.

Only those considered extremely cooperative would avoid a trio of techniques designed to produce a “baseline, dependent” state: the deprivation of clothes, solid food and sleep.

Follow-up sessions would start with the prisoner standing with his back against a wall and a towel or collar to prevent whiplash wrapped around his neck. He could be thrown against the wall just once “to make a point, or 20 to 30 times consecutively.”

Prisoners so abhorred the repeated slamming that they would remain in so-called stress positions, such as painful kneeling postures, for hours to avoid a return to the wall, according to one Dec. 30, 2004, memo that amounts to a CIA blueprint for breaking a detainee’s will.

Meticulous detail

The rules for administering such methods were spelled out precisely. Detainees could be kept in a large box for 18 hours a day, but small boxes for only two hours at a time. They could be hosed with water for 15 minutes, but the air temperature had to exceed 65 degrees if they weren’t to be given a towel.

The detainee “finds himself in the complete control of Americans,” the memo said. “The procedures he is subjected to are precise, quiet and almost clinical.”

Earlier this year, the Obama administration released a series of Justice Department memos laying out legal rationales for the array of coercive interrogation methods the CIA employed.

The documents — including an internal report by the CIA inspector general and correspondence between the agency and the Justice Department — show that the agency also sought Justice Department review of the basic conditions in which prisoners were kept.

The agency had to use extraordinary security measures inside the prison walls, the records indicate, because keeping the facilities’ purpose secret meant the CIA could not surround them with guards and barriers that would attract attention from the public.

The black sites “were not designed as ordinary prisons, much less as high-security detention centers for extremely dangerous, and often highly sophisticated, international terrorists,” one Justice Department memo said. “They are a serious risk to escape and to the safety of CIA personnel.”

About 100 prisoners passed through the CIA system. Among them were a handful of “high-value detainees” including Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, self-proclaimed mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks.

Some detainees attacked guards, according to the documents, and the sites themselves were also seen as potential targets for terrorist attacks.

Total isolation

The records don’t say where the prisons were, but news reports and accounts from former U.S. officials indicate the sites included Thailand, Poland, Romania, Morocco and Lithuania.

Internal security measures included the “white noise” in the prison walkways to prevent detainees from communicating. The upper limit was 79 decibels — about the level of a garbage disposal — to avoid permanent harm to detainees’ hearing.

Prisoners were kept in solitary confinement and allowed no communication with the outside world. Any time they were moved, they were shackled and outfitted in blacked-out goggles to prevent them from seeing the layout of the prison, or getting any clues to where it was.

Their cells were illuminated and monitored via closed-circuit video 24 hours a day. “Some detainees are provided eyeshades to permit them to block out the light when they are sleeping,” an Aug. 31, 2006, Justice Department memo said.

In some sections, the memos seem contradictory, describing ways to reduce prisoners to an infantile state while insisting that the agency be committed to “minimizing the physical discomfort and psychological distress that detainees are likely to suffer.”

As a result, after prisoners were broken by a regimen of sleep deprivation, slamming them against the wall, and in three cases waterboarding, they were often given items to ease their sense of isolation. Among them were “a wide variety of books, puzzles, paper and ‘safe’ writing utensils, chess and checker sets, a personal journal, and access to DVD and VCR videotapes.”

Iran’s New Defense Minister: My Selection a ‘Decisive Slap’ to Israel

Iran’s New Defense Minister: My Selection a ‘Decisive Slap’ to Israel

Readers Number : 59

03/09/2009 Iran’s new defense minister Ahmad Vahidi, who is wanted in Argentina in connection with the bombing of a Jewish centre, said on Thursday that his selection is a “decisive slap to Israel.”

Following the approval of his appointment, Vahidi addressed the possibility that Israel may attack his nation’s nuclear facilities: “Every move from the Zionist entity against Iran, will be met with a harsh and powerful response from Iran.” He said his great success in the Thursday’s Majlis vote “attests to the anti-Zionist spirit of the Iranian parliament and people”.

In response to objections voiced by heads of the Argentinean Jewish community, as well as Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak, to his appointment. “The Zionist regime’s propaganda always has a reverse effect on the Iranian regime,” he said. Regarding the West’s suspicion of his involvement in the Buenos Aires bombing, he said, “Everyone knows that what was published was under pressure from the Zionist lobby.”

Iranian lawmakers voted overwhelmingly for Vahidi, with 227 MPs casting their ballots in his favor, the highest among the 18 nominees of the 21-member cabinet proposed by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

“I congratulate Mr. Vahidi for getting the highest votes,” parliament speaker Ali Larijani said. Va

300 Million Without A Country

AmericanMilitia.jpg image by KASPER481

[As usual, Jim Kirwan is on to something scary in the following article.  This time, he is dead on in posing his question to the powers that be–What will come of their plans when they push the people to take back their country?  Jim and a lot of other people understand that when the government takes certain clear steps toward the police state, such as ending the Internet, or establishing military check points throughout the country, the guns are going to start coming out of the closets.]

300 Million Without A Country
By Jim Kirwan
Perhaps the most crucial bit of missing information, in the public’s mind today, is the fact that everything we thought we knew about this country and the world was dramatically altered with the coming of the New Millennium. Specifically; all the laws and conventions as well as the treaties and social interactions that existed in the twentieth century were very publicly murdered at the beginning of the twenty-first century-yet very few even noticed that pivotal event. And now nearly nine years later the bill for all of that inattention and lawlessness is finally coming due.
We still call ourselves ‘Americans’ but there is no ‘America’ to which we actually belong; because in the intervening years we have lost all that the old idea of America once tried to stand for. The ‘Freedom & Democracy’ that we once believed we stood for has become nothing more than another hollow lie in service to a dictatorship, that serves foreign and private interests, which has nothing to do with the real interests of the American people or their once recognized Constitutional heritage. We have become ‘a people without a country.’
This is the stage upon which the current puppet-show is being played out in a mockery of everything that was supposed to protect us from all the treason and the tyranny that are now as commonplace as breathing-inside this prison-without-actual-bars that still calls itself the United States of America.
If only we could learn to see the truth of what has become of our lives, then it is likely that we would resist it in every way possible, but too many have lost interest in trying to differentiate between what constitutes the truth and what is nothing but a series of perverted rumors designed to mask reality.
This is however not an easy thing to do, in this new-old world of double-speak, coupled with a population that has been spoon-fed upon the facile schemes of hidden power that went into The Century of the Self; that has been exterminating our core selves, by the millions, since it was created by Freud’s nephew, Edward Béarnaise. (1)
When people remain rooted in a balanced relationship between the natural world and their own desires then it is not difficult to see what has become of the truth. But when reality itself has become so distorted, so twisted by greed and by an unnatural avarice for unchecked-power; that the result is the current outlaw-state that together with the criminal-state of Israel have been leading this New-Old World Order, straight into global oblivion.
We must be able to both hear and see the truth of any given proposition, within our own mind’s eye; with such a degree of clarity that there can be no doubt as to the veracity of what we can truly ‘see’ as well as hear; amid the cacophony that passes for the tumultuous chaos of the world as we have come to know it now. However if we subscribe to the buzz-saw-blade of rumor, to serve as our basis for decision-making-then what we have now-is clearly what was intended, since the end of the twentieth century.
Truth is necessary for anything of substance. Rumors on the other hand are always with us, and require no proofs at all, yet what they produce can poison almost anything whenever trust is needed to complete a vision and this becomes far more important if that ‘vision’ is one of national self-reliance and personal self-determination when it comes to what this country is, or was: As well as what it soon will be, if we don’t take it back from the Outlaws that have owned us outright since the beginning of the year 2000!
Between then and now, take a look at just how much has changed, without
any consultation with the peoples in Mexico, Canada or the USA.
“”Today I received another confirmation that the collapse of the dollar and the US is inevitable. Japan’s Democratic Party won the election, and I’d like to remind you that its leader [Yukio Hatoyama] has the snubbing of the dollar among his economic plans. In plainer words, he plans to transfer Japan’s monetary reserves from US dollars into another currency. The move will seriously accelerate the dollar’s exchange slump as early as this November. Disintegration will follow shortly,” he said, adding that next year China would also begin to massively dump the dollar and that Russia would begin to sell oil and gas for roubles.
Panarin previously stated that the dollar would eventually be replaced with “a common Amero currency as a new monetary unit”, referring to the Security and Prosperity Partnership agreement between the U.S., Canada and Mexico. He foresees the U.S. breaking up into six different parts, roughly along lines similar to those of 1865 during the Civil War, “The Pacific coast, with its growing Chinese population; the South, with its
Hispanics; Texas, where independence movements are on the rise; the Atlantic coast, with its distinct and separate mentality; five of the poorer central states with their large Native American populations; and the northern states, where the influence from Canada is strong,” according to Panarin.
Longer term, Panarin predicts that the breakaway states will eventually be taken over by the European Union, Canada,China, Mexico, Japan and Russia and America will cease to exist altogether, as depicted in the illustration above.
Panarin blames the collapse on a “political elite that implements an absurd and aggressive policy that aims to create conflicts around the planet” and warns that increasing firearms sales in the U.S. are a sign that people are preparing for “chaos” in the aftermath of a total financial meltdown.” (2)
They already have all the criminally written permissions to do whatever they like to us – at a moment’s notice, with or without Martial Law – All that is preventing them from doing any of it is that they FEAR reprisals. Having the power and the technical authority (illegal though it is) is not the same thing as being able to DO it. That’s why the thugs in uniform have been practicing upon the public with their stun guns and their other weapons – to see whether or not the public will accept their total barbarity in the face of the false-flag of terrorism. Their authority for doing what they are doing now – comes from the USA PATRIOT Acts, both one and two – because those two have totally wrecked the constitutional protections for the citizen from their own government. What’s preventing them from going further than the current isolated instances is their FEAR of the real “us,” that is just waiting for them to finally cross the real lines that individuals have drawn in the concrete of the cities.
They have not dared to set up their bogus “check-points” in populated areas because they’d never be able to leave those posts at the end of their shifts – and that too is a fact which they have not yet been able to rationalize their way out of. If they act before they are certain then they will die in the backlash – and they KNOW that this is as certain as the sun that rises, in the East every morning.
So – there are just far too many question marks for them; Questions for which they have no real answers – and just as no lawyer ever asks a question that he or she does not already know the answer to – they don’t DARE to do this until they KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt what will happen if they finally try to push this nightmare any further. The public has so far been reluctant to throw caution to the winds and react to what they keep trying to do to us. That does NOT however mean that this passivity will tolerate much more of their arrogant and illegal oppression. . .
Then there is this critical-bit of background information as to the actual owners that are directing this global-nightmare from the comfort of their sheltered lives around the world. This being something else that could not have happened if the American public had not left this nation virtually undefended for the last nearly nine years. It is actually amazing that it’s taken the owners this long to get to this showdown between their coercion and our resolve. (3)
So we have arrived at this imperfect storm where another false flag of terror has been raised over the need to vaccinate the entire population against something that is still forming; at the same time as the banks are melting and the criminal government that now wants to declare Martial Law is getting nervous.
What is surprising in all of this is that FEAR has become their enemy, when it was suppose to be their strongest ally. The tide has turned; because too many KNOW now, what they had to eventually come to see and understand. These peons in service to the so-called powerful are nothing but the road-kill they’ve always been – and always will be. What is changing is that because so many KNOW and are still afraid to speak; afraid that they might be arrested or worse – this too is KNOWN by all the players in this game-of-chess that is “a game” no longer. The time to stop this is before families can be separated, before the children can be conscripted and vaccinated, without parental approval of the actions of these Outlaws that claim to be the government. We can no longer wait for them to make the first move-a free people would not wait for them to act, but would initiate their own ultimatums to that so-called power which is currently threatening us all. (4)
Killing off the public for petty little fantasies may have begun, but what’s left of the world will not be livable; and what will survive will be permanently hostile to any form of control over anything – for hundreds of years (provided of course that anyone survives more than a year after what is about to be inflicted)? Moreover this will not be happening in a vacuum, the whole planet will be afflicted with this insanity (IF THEY GET THEIR WAY) – but even if they try and fail, the end result will still be the same to one degree or another, nearly everywhere.
Part of having the power is having the slaves to worship you for ‘being powerful.’ That part of this will be non-existent as those who seek to gain power in this way will mostly have been killed themselves in this Herculean effort to steal the world – so again ­ if they were about to try and just eliminate the USA so that they would face no real resistance to their power-grab, they would still face the rest of the planet that would react to our suddenly helpless state within this country; and they would have to fight the whole world anyhow. The PTB comprise so few people, that no matter how they try and frame this folly-they will lose. The entire US is only something like 6.5% of the planet; so what are the other 93.5% of the globe’s population going to be doing while we’re dying or being enslaved – or both? This has NOT been thought out in any real way.
At the end of the day – the only way any population can be forced into anything they do not wish to accept is that they need time to get accustomed to the idea that is about to be forced upon them: To the extent that people are not given enough notice to have their money structure totally changed, or their lives permanently altered by a change in status, or imprisonment (this cannot be measured quickly by trial balloons) ­ because if they are ‘wrong’ then the target audience will definitely rebel, openly and violently until the offending force no longer exists!
1) The Century of the Self
2) Russian Professor: Collapse of America Could Begin in Two Months
3) The Illuminati Myth
4) A Million TIMES More Squalene In H1N1 Vax Than Caused GWI

Russia Seeks Afghan War Role as NATO Deaths Climb

Russia Seeks Afghan War Role as NATO Deaths Climb

By James G. Neuger

Sept. 2 (Bloomberg) — Russia is seeking a role in planning NATO’s war in Afghanistan two decades after Soviet forces were ejected from the country.

As East-West ties improve under President Barack Obama, Russia wants to be involved in setting the political, military and intelligence strategy for the war against the Taliban, said Dmitry Rogozin, Russian ambassador to the alliance.

“We want to be inside,” Rogozin said, in English, in an interview in Brussels today. He spoke for the rest of the hour- long session through a Russian translator.

Allied military planners are groping for a new strategy as casualties climb. The commander in Afghanistan, U.S. Army General Stanley McChrystal, this week called the situation there “serious.” In what Obama calls a “war of necessity,” some 153 allied troops were killed in July and August, according to

Wrangling between Afghan President Hamid Karzai and his challengers over the Aug. 20 election has magnified concerns about the country’s stability.

Russia now lets the North Atlantic Treaty Organization use its territory to ship supplies to Afghanistan, saying it faces a more direct threat from terrorism there than the U.S. and its allies. President Dmitry Medvedev has said Russia is prepared to cooperate with the U.S. to bring order to Afghanistan, though officials have made clear that Russia won’t commit troops.

NATO planning sessions are restricted to countries taking part in missions.

Soviet Invasion

The invasion of Afghanistan in 1979 and its failed 10-year occupation helped lead to the break-up of the Soviet Union. The U.S. shipped weapons to Islamic resistance fighters who later sowed the seeds of the al-Qaeda movement.

“It is in the interests of NATO to make Russia a permanent participant in all the discussions, professional discussions, closed discussions that are being held on Afghanistan in Brussels and Mons,” Rogozin said.

The 28-nation alliance’s civilian headquarters is in Brussels. The military command is based in Mons, in southern Belgium.

Rogozin said he broached Russia’s proposals to Anders Fogh Rasmussen, a former Danish prime minister who became NATO secretary general on Aug. 1. Rasmussen responded with an “approving nod,” he said.

‘Further Steps’

Rasmussen gave his account of that Aug. 11 encounter at a briefing today in Brussels, calling it a “a very successful, very fruitful and very useful meeting.” NATO is “reflecting on which further steps could be taken,” Rasmussen said.

In an Aug. 31 interview, Rasmussen called for a “strategic partnership” with NATO’s former Cold War adversary, seeking to soothe the strains that peaked with Russia’s 2008 war with Georgia, a would-be alliance member.

While committed to working more closely with Russia on Afghanistan, NATO today said the best forum would be the regular NATO-Russia meetings that resumed in January when the alliance ended a five-month diplomatic boycott after the Georgia war.

“It would certainly be appropriate to look at doing more on Afghanistan in the NATO-Russia Council framework,” alliance spokesman James Appathurai said by telephone in response to Rogozin’s proposals.

‘Strategic Partnership’

Some 62,000 U.S. and 35,000 allied troops are battling to defeat a comeback of the Taliban, the radical Islamic movement that ran Afghanistan and harbored al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden until it was ousted by the U.S. after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks.

Russia is saving the U.S. $1 billion annually by allowing its airspace to be used for 15 daily flights by American military cargo planes into Afghanistan, Rogozin said.

Russia wouldn’t close off its airspace if NATO bars it from the war-planning discussions, Rogozin said, refusing to envision “such dramatic scenarios.”

As part of a “new impetus” in NATO-Russia cooperation on Afghanistan, Rogozin also proposed a stepped up “dialogue of our intelligence agencies to break down terrorist and paramilitary networks, to localize their actions and ultimately neutralize them.”

The two sides will take their next steps when Rasmussen meets Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov in New York during the annual session of the United Nations General Assembly. Rogozin said he hoped Rasmussen will visit Moscow by the end of the year.

Enlargement Opposed

Better ties won’t overcome Russia’s opposition to further NATO enlargement or to U.S. proposals for a missile-defense shield in eastern Europe, Rogozin said.

Rogozin frowned on a proposal by former U.S. National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski for tighter security arrangements between NATO and the Russian-led Collective Security Treaty Organization, a seven-nation group pieced together out of the remnants of the Soviet Union.

The idea would leave NATO free to expand further into Russia’s backyard, Rogozin said.

“NATO acknowledges the Collective Security Treaty Organization and Russia gets the hole of the donut,” Rogozin said. “It has to silence itself and stop objecting to further NATO enlargement to the east.”

To contact the reporter on this story: James G. Neuger in Brussels at