As-Sahab: English transcript of the interview with Mulla Nazeer Ahmad, the amir of the mujahideen in the South Waziristan
- Born in 1395 h (1975) in Bermel, the Afghan territory of South Waziristan.
- After going through primary education in the local Madrassa, acquired religious education at the Central Madrassa at Wana (South Waziristan).
- During his education in 1995-96, participated in Jihad with the Taliban Mujahideen after the conquest of Mazar Sharif.
- Permanently became part of Jihad after Taliban’s conquest of Kabul.
- Participated in the operations against the Northern Alliance in Krabagh, Bagram, Qil’a Murad Baig and Jabal-us-Siraj.
- Took part in Jihad during the conquests of Bamian, Takhar, Qunduz and Badghees.
- Commenced Jihad against America from South Waziristan after the fall of the Islamic Emirate in Afghanistan.
- Nowadays, he is the Emir of the Taliban Mujahideen in South Waziristan (Wazir tribes) and member of the Shura Ittihad-ul-Mujahideen (Central Council of the allied Taliban groups in Pakistan)
Also tell us that if you are under the Emir of the Believers, Mulla Muhammad Omar Mujahid are you in contact with him, i.e., and does he give you instructions and guidance, or do you administer the system over here yourselves?
Mulla Nazir: The Emir of the believers is Emir of the Jihad too. The Mujahideen all over the world accept him as their Emir.
Our companions used to go to different areas like Ghazni and Zabul, but the Pakistani government started hindering our path. In the beginning we had intended Jihad against America and had not meant to fight here, but when the Pakistani government became an obstacle for us and started hindering our passages, destroying our bases, martyring our brothers and ambushing and arresting them from their routes…we were left no choice other than directing our weapons towards the Pakistani Government.
As-Sahab: What sort of cooperation do you have with the local Taliban groups of Waziristan and of other tribes in Pakistan? The news and glad tidings about the Alliance that we hear nowadays, what would you say about its features and details?
Mulla Nazir: All praise is due to Allah. It is by the grace and mercy of Allah that the severance, enmity, detachment and the differences that had been created between us…it turned out to be the wickedness of our enemies. Foremost among them is the ISI. They dreaded that Mulla Nazeer, Baitullah and Gul Bahadur unite in an alliance. Thus we made our effort and crushed their plots by the grace and mercy of Allah. You might have heard in the news that we joined forces in an alliance. Now we shall defend ourselves against any enemy as one.
We have reached the conclusion that the differences between us had been provoked by the ISI and our enemies. It was the ISI that had inflamed the hatred and hostility between the Wazir and Mehsud nations. For this reason, we have forgotten all our differences and merged in this alliance as one. There shall be no more disputes in future, and any differences that arise shall be solved by the thirteen-member Shura that has been formulated. Allah willing, the Jihad shall become more rapid and fiery.
As-Sahab: If the Pakistan Army carries out some operation or there is an American attack, will all the tribes and the Mujahideen over here wage Jihad which mutual cooperation?
Mulla Nazir: Yes, absolutely. Whatever is going on here, even now it is under America’s command. The Pakistan Army is the executing force. If the Pakistan Army means to carry out an operation again, then we shall answer it as one. All the tribes and the Mujahideen in North and South Waziristan shall retaliate simultaneously, and the reply shall be much more severe than before.
As-Sahab: You told us that the brothers with you are waging Jihad at different fronts inside Afghanistan too. What objectives of this Jihad do you have in view? If America flees from Afghanistan, the Mujahideen are triumphant and the Islamic system and the Shariah is implemented in Afghanistan by the grace of Allah once again…will your Jihad come to a halt…or do you have something further than that in mind?
Mulla Nazir: No, no…our Jihad is against kufr, and to get back our lands that kufr has occupied, and our Jihad is meant to make supreme the Word of Allah and to establish the system of Shariah. Our Jihad isn’t limited to Pakistan or Afghanistan. We do not even accept these parting boundaries that “this shall be Pakistan” and “that shall be Afghanistan”…this is nothing but an inanity devised by the Jews and we reject it. All Muslims are our brothers, may they be in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Palestine or anywhere in the world. It is impossible to create division between Muslims, and the present partitions are utterly rejected. Our Jihad is a global Jihad, and we aim to liberate Muslims throughout the world and obliterate tumult, oppression and mischief, and establish the system of Shariah all over the world. We want the Law of Allah on the Land of Allah.
As-Sahab: Some people in Pakistan and even some of those who support the Jihad in Afghanistan claim that Pakistan is an Islamic country; its government and army are Islamic institutions that defend Muslims: Then why do the Mujahideen fight them and how can Jihad be lawful against them? Do you believe that this government is an Islamic government and this army is a Muslim army that defends Muslims? What has been your experience regarding its role in the past few years?
Mulla Nazir: The blessed verse that I recited before informs us about the decision of Allah (the Glorious, the Great) regarding this matter:
“O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you who turns to them (for friendship) is of them.” (Al-Maida: 51)
So it is a decided matter. Pakistan has helped the Jews and the Christians and took them for friends, so it has become one of them.
“…Verily Allah guides not a people unjust.”
This too is true about them. They have been unjust and cruel; having martyred so many of our tribesmen…they have transgressed and aided the Jews and Christians, and have become one of them. This is Allah’s verdict. So we do not consider this government an Islamic government. This government has killed innocents and sent blameless persons to Cuba in return of dollars. Even now they are martyring Muslims and they haven’t stopped. Thus, this government is no Islamic government, nor is it legal according to the Shariah. It has sided kufr and its laws are laws of kufr, so we do not believe it to be Islamic.
As-Sahab: Pakistan has a democratic system implemented in it, and many people who are earnest to the religion, with even many Ulema among them, are struggling to implement an Islamic system by way of democracy and elections. What is your view about such efforts? Many people also have the opinion that Taliban should lay down their weapons and participate in elections and talk about their rights in the parliament. What is your opinion in this matter?
Mulla Nazir: No, no, we do not accept Democracy. It is code of law formulated by kufr. Allama Iqbal has also said that it is a system in which people are merely counted, not weighed. And this counting can include Shiites, Christians and drunkards alike…and then they elect an emir (ruler) for us! What suffices is that it has been devised by kufr and we can never ever accept it. I have never casted a vote myself. In our own region too, I have made it clear that vote-casting is unlawful and it will remain so in future, may the candidate be a religious scholar or someone else. We utterly reject Democracy, which has been originated by kufr and has no trace of Islam in it.
As-Sahab: If the Government or the Army of Pakistan tries to convince you through negotiations or agreements or any other sort of dialogue that you put down your weapons and we will implement the Shariah in some limited area, as it has happened in Malakand; what will you say about this? Will our struggle come to a standstill at this point?
Mulla Nazir: The Pakistani Government is not sincere in their gesture with the people of Malakand. It is not true in its promise of giving them the Shariah system. This is no more than a warfare tactic of theirs. There is a war of Kalashnikovs and bullets and there is a war of politics. They are trying to shove them into the bog of politics, and only intend to proceed with their mission by this. I say again: Pakistan is not sincere with the people of Malakand. We do not demand the Shariah in Malakand or Waziristan only; rather, we want it in all of Pakistan. The demands of laying down weapons are only meant to deceive the Mujahideen. We shall never put down our weapons until this mischief ends and the rule of Shariah is established in Pakistan.
As-Sahab: So would you accept a system of Shariah on the same lines upon which the government of Pakistan presently is, with Zardari as its president and Kiani as Chief of the Army Staff? If these people implement the Shariah with themselves remaining in power, would you then accept such a rule of Shariah?
Mulla Nazir: Not at all. With these individuals remaining in power, it is ridiculous to think that Shariah would ever be as it should be. These are cronies of America. Pakistan has the British law implemented in it, and its educational system is that devised by Lord Macaulay. With this at hand, we cannot accept the supposed Shariah. The Supreme Court remains imposed upon our heads and then they say: “We donate the Shariah to Waziristan while they work under us”…sorry, we can’t accept this. Rather, our invitation is extended to them too. Let you come with us, establish Shariah in Pakistan and “enter wholly into Islam”…and we will be with you. We are not hostile to them for any reason except that they sided with kufr; their law is the law of kufr… while we demand the Shariah. This is why we oppose them.
As-Sahab: Waziristan has been heavily targeted by missile attacks during the last year. You were also targeted in one of these attacks in which you suffered wounds. Likewise many Mujahideen who had served Jihad for a long time were martyred in these attacks. How, in this situation, is the morale of the Mujahideen and to what stage has their struggle reached? Has the kufr triumphed by these intensive attacks or are the Mujahideen still firm and unwavering on the path of Jihad?
Mulla Nazir: It is true that we have grieved by what has happened, but this has strengthened the Mujahid network rather than weakening it. The blood of a martyr raises many more martyrs. The number of our Mujahid brothers has increased by these attacks. It has not decreased. The Americans had planned that they would annihilate the Taliban movement by besieging them in Afghanistan, but the Mujahideen surfaced once again from over here. They were unable to finish them off. Whenever there is an attack over here, it turns out to swell our numbers rather than reducing them.
As-Sahab: Do you think that America is the sole culprit of these attacks or that Pakistan is involved in them too? If such is the case, than how do they execute these attacks? What means do they have of receiving intelligence about the whereabouts of the Mujahideen and their leaders and commanders?
Mulla Nazir: Pakistan has misled the common population that America carries out these attacks and we cannot do anything to stop them. All the spies that we have caught turned out to be employees of Pakistan. The location-tracking SIMs that they use had been provided by Pakistan. We have also released their video clips. The spyware and intelligence is fully associated with the Army. A couple of days ago, an American CIA officer confessed that Pakistan’s airbases are being used for these attacks and that Pakistan itself is involved in them. They have even threatened us themselves that it is we who are striking you and that either you should renounce Jihad or we would attack. The assertion that America is behind this and we are helpless is only meant to deceive the public. All these attacks that have happened and are still happening are the work of Pakistan.
As-Sahab: What steps are you taking to prevent such attacks? Firstly, how can the spy aircrafts be stopped; and secondly, what is their intelligence channel and what measures are you undertaking to impede it?
Mulla Nazir: We are taking measures to catch spies. We do not spare those who are proven guilty…but only after acquiring genuine evidence. This sedition has been pioneered by the government of Pakistan. They have put men into deceit by making them do their dirty work for them, and they do it in return of a few rupees. Thus we warn such people to renounce this occupation as it only brings them disaster…and they aren’t spared by the Mujahideen. We do not spare anyone who works for kufr; who works for Pakistan.
As-Sahab: And do you have some technique against the spy planes, like some weapon that you may have used and succeeded with it? Or are we helpless in front of them?
Mulla Nazir: We still have our earlier weaponry with us. We have the defensive guns that have been brought into play again and they have been useful.
As-Sahab: Four or five months earlier a spy plane was shot down near Angur Ada and there was news that another one had been damaged, probably by receiving some fire. The media propagated that the Pakistan Army had hit the planes or their border security forces had fired at them…?
Mulla Nazir: No, no. They were shot down by our Mujahid brothers with the Shilka weapon. A couple of planes were downed, and we informed the media that they had been shot down by us and not Pakistan. Pakistan is the one that operates them, how can it shoot them down?
ZSU-23-4 SHILKA ANTI-AIRCRAFT
The morale of the Mujahideen is exceedingly high. The propaganda by Pakistan about having killed them in large numbers is a mere bluff. The Mujahideen are strengthening with every passing day. The more they are forced down, the more they shine and their spirits are elevated.
Here in the tribal areas, The Mujahideen are content with war. When there is no war, they start depressing. We are not afraid of war. War has raised the spirits of the Mujahideen.
As-Sahab: The religious class in Pakistan has been associated with the Jihad in Kashmir since many decades. What is your opinion about the Jihad in Kashmir and the role of the government and the ISI in it?
Mulla Nazir: The Jihad in Kashmir and those who have offered sacrifices in it have done it with sincerity. But we believe that we are not achieving the objectives for which we lay down our lives. This is an affair running under the ISI and it is ludicrous to hope that the Shariah or Islam shall come this way. Thus the Jihad through which the ISI has put people into deception can bear no fruit. Our advice to those of our brothers is that they should support us here and join forces with us. We offer sacrifices to establish the Shariah and the law of Allah. The Kashmiri Jihad does not help us forward in achieving our objectives. There is a law of kufr in India and a law given by the British in Pakistan. One of these two brands of kufr shall prevail in Kashmir. It isn’t Islam that would reign…and so our sacrifices will go in vain. Therefore, we advise those Mujahideen to come together with us and work under the Emir of the Believers. Let your direction veer towards the Americans for now and your Jihad be in keeping with the Emir’s commands. Your sacrifices shall bear fruit; the Shariah shall be established and Allah’s land shall witness Allah’s law upon it. It is our sincere advice to those of our Mujahid brothers that they should renounce servitude to the ISI.
As-Sahab: During the last days, the Mujahideen executed operations in Bombay and killed numerous Christians, Jews and Hindus in them. How do you feel about that? Also tell us that if in the forthcoming days, the Hindus assault the Muslims in Pakistan, how will you wage Jihad against them? Likewise, do you have any future intentions regarding Kashmir and to stop the injustice and tyranny upon the Kashmiri people?
Mulla Nazir: We do not know the Mujahideen who sacrificed their lives in India, but we lament our loss that why we could not go forth ourselves to lay down our lives there. The sacrifice they offered was a very great one. It lofted the spirits of the Mujahideen. We pray for them and consider them to be sincere with Allah.
As for India, it should know that immense numbers of the Mujahideen lie await for them here in the tribal areas and inside Pakistan. If it proceeds to attack, then let it be aware that Allah willing, we are fully able to answer back and too ready to give away our lives. Our reply shall be much more deadly than what we made them taste in Bombay.
As-Sahab: The Government along with some people in the media has created a lot of propaganda against the Mujahideen in the tribal belt that they have excessive resources and money and perhaps some foreign hand or agency is at their back and finances them. And that the weaponry with them is very new too. Similarly, some other people accuse them of being Indian agents, who have been infiltrated by India to plot against Pakistan. What will you say to answer this accusation?
Mulla Nazir: These tribes have done Jihad against the British and the Soviets before this, and we simply are Mujahideen. This propaganda against us is absolutely false. We have rose for Jihad and give sacrifices to establish the rule of Shariah. The assertions that we have come from India and that MOSAD finances us are a stratagem of the ISI. We haven’t received money from anyone and have been Mujahideen from old times. These tribes have been sacrificing since the British era and are laying down their lives to this day. We fight with them in Afghanistan too and are enemies of the occupation forces there. Such propaganda is utterly false and groundless. Anyone who is in doubt should come here and observe us and have a look at the state of affairs…and then come to a decision about who gives us money…is it India or someone else? Pakistan has put the people in deception that India or perhaps Russia finances us. Come on! We have warred Russia before this! And we are enemies to India and MOSAD. [What about Iran?]
As-Sahab: Is the general view about the Mujahideen rolling in riches and having lots of money correct? Or are their resources limited and their weaponry old?
Mulla Nazir: We do not rely on weaponry. The weapons we have are very few. Have a look at history. Look at the battle of Badr! How few were the material means! Look at Uhud! Nothing was being achieved because of means; rather, it was achieved by sacrifice. We are fighting this battle with the power of faith. We have no remarkable arms with us, nor is there anyone to provide us means and material. These old weapons are all we carry and our infrastructure runs by charity. The whole world is hostile to us…it isn’t aiding us.
As-Sahab: There is another allegation upon the Mujahideen that they do execute suicide attacks upon army men and other targets, but also deem it lawful to kill many Muslims along with them? What is your opinion about that? Is it lawful to kill a Muslim? And the Government of Pakistan makes the Scholars of vice issue fatwas that such operations may be lawful in Iraq or Afghanistan, but they are unlawful in Pakistan. What would you say about that?
Mulla Nazir: Actually, it is the ISI that executes operations at mosques, not the Mujahideen. They are enemies to us and so they scare people about us being thugs and things like that. We are Mujahideen and we never carry out martyrdom operations in the vicinity of Muslims. It is the Army upon which we execute such operations. The Army is our target because it has aided the Americans. We do carry out martyrdom operations throughout Pakistan but we renounce and condemn those of them in mosques and marketplaces. It is our enemy that does it.
As-Sahab: Regarding the Taliban of South Waziristan, the government sometimes pretends at the media and some analysts assert that they are in fact the government-made tribal militia formed to expel the Mujahideen from the region. They especially release such statements upon receiving pressure from America. What do you say about that?
Mulla Nazir: This isn’t true. We are being targeted in drone attacks. I was targeted in a drone attack myself. How come we are Pakistan’s serving militia?! We are the soldiers of Islam and we are Mujahideen, not some Pakistani horde. In fact, we are hostile to Pakistan and we are an Islamic army. Pakistan attacked me and attacks the rest of our brother Mujahideen by their drone aircrafts. How can we be Pakistan’s men?
the Pakistani Army, as they have accepted servitude to the Americans. Pakistan is foremost among the forty, forty-five of America’s allies. About 75-80% of the captives at Cuba have been handed over by Pakistan. The others of America’s friends have not served it so well. About two to three hundred containers of American supplies cross from over Pakistani land daily. This is the extent to which Pakistan serves America. 70% of the assistance America receives is provided by Pakistan. They have martyred our Mujahid brothers; those of them who were leading us and were our elders. Whenever we raise our head, Pakistan pursues us. Thus we are compelled to war Pakistan. It is not because India or Russia has bribed us…not at all…rather, we have been compelled to do so. Pakistan does not leave us alone. Neither do they spare any base camp, nor do they spare any Mujahid. Rather they kill us even in our homes. So you should forsake Pakistan’s friendship and join the Mujahideen.
All praise is to Allah, the Mujahideen have now joined forces; Gul Bahadur, Baitullah and we have all become one.